The key insight from gallows glyphs is that their graphical similarity seems to be mirrored with their function in words. While we do not know their values (or even what kinds of things they might stand for) we can tentatively say that gallows glyphs show evidence for design in the script. Even if the overall look of the gallows glyphs has been taken from another source, they might have been arranged in a particular way for the script.
(27-01-2021, 08:58 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The key insight from gallows glyphs is that their graphical similarity seems to be mirrored with their function in words. While we do not know their values (or even what kinds of things they might stand for) we can tentatively say that gallows glyphs show evidence for design in the script.
I agree and the two benches
ch Sh form another couple of glyphs that look similar and behave similarly.
These couples could also share some similarity in behaviour, but this is less clear:
At a different level, also the three glyphs that Stolfi called "circles" (
o a y) can be said to share a similar bahaviour (see Emma's discussion You are not allowed to view links.
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An interesting case of systematic design from the same time frame as the VMS is You are not allowed to view links.
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I'm glad Marco brought up the Fontana cipher because out of all the medieval ciphers I've seen, it strikes me as the most systematic.
I worked out the shape mnemonics for the cipher. The vowels have been mentioned many times, in countless articles, but I couldn't find any articles or research that described the shape-mates for the entire alphabet (there are several groups), so I thought it might be worth documenting the other groups, which are also systematically designed:
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Great post, Klingmann. Brian Cham’s Curve-Line System is massive. If you ask me the CLS has definitely been given its due attention by people serious about understanding the VMS’s text. More seasoned researchers here may beg to differ, but Brian Cham’s blog makes my essential reading list, alongside Stolfi and D’Imperio. The CLS will never have the glitzy pop science journalism appeal of full-fledged theories full of intrigue and color (but short on factual support) published by mainstream academics. Brian Cham is like a really good author or musical artist, who’s widely known and highly regarded by other accomplished authors or musicians, but doesn’t have the mainstream appeal or taste for the limelight that they do.
A couple of thoughts on your table of twins:
- Might EVA [o] (e column) be matched with [qo] (i column)?
- Might the e column twin of [a] be [ee], rather than [ch]?
(27-01-2021, 09:16 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At a different level, also the three glyphs that Stolfi called "circles" (o a y) can be said to share a similar bahaviour (see Emma's discussion You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
I like to think of
y as the "circle that should be used" when not followed by strings of
i .
o and
a could also be seen as a pair, though they share only some commonalities and some important differences.
About the Giovanni Fontana's cipher mentioned by Marco: the symbol of the vowel o is the same as that of the planet Venus. Curious coincidence, isn't it?
It seems like a time when all kinds of symbols were being created
Thanks to everyone for all the comments. I'm really encouraged to know that others think there may be some kind of deliberate design in glyph shapes, rather than it just being coincidence, or glyphs chosen at random, selected due to the authors familiarity with Latin characters and similar.
MarcoP, thanks for your link to Fontanas Cipher... I'm going to spend some time reading up about this when I have an evening free to digest it all in one go.
RenegadeHealer, thanks for your kind words. You could be absolutely right with your thoughts with the twins; I admit, the ch and the qo were the glyphs which I have found most hard to place. I was loath to pair q with anything at all, as it seems to be a rule unto itself, and the fact it only appears at the start of words before o (apart from the odd anomaly) makes me wonder if it is really a 'letter' at all, but perhaps a 'modifier?' Perhaps O has a distinctive meaning/reading when at the start of words, which is different from what it means at other positions in a word, BUT the presence of q before a word which otherwise starts with O is to make the reader aware that this particular O is to be read/interpreted by its other, inner word meaning?
Anyway, thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I had a little while last night to try and organize my 'twin' idea some more last night, and actually am beginning to wonder if they are really 'quadruplets.' There are 4 gallows, 4 gallows on the double C, 4 (common) figures which look like the number 8, 4 characters which have a backward curved line that extends above the main body of text.... and yet with all of these groups of 4, they have something in common - 2 of their number can be placed in the Curve column, and 2 on their twinned Line column. Interesting....?
G.
I would be careful about imagining groups of glyphs based only on visual similarity. You need to show functional similarity too.
It's interesting that you mention groups of four. From a slight different perspective perhaps these can be seen as pairs of pairs, which can be seen in the example of the VMs Zodiac medallions - first five houses.
First is Pisces, two fish - paired internally.
Then two versions of Aries and Taurus, each half a month - paired externally by bifurcation.
Then there is Gemni (below)
And fifth is Cancer a pair of crayfish - paired internally.
Fish and crayfish are both paired internally (1). Both are aquatic animals (2), They are a pair of pairs. (#1 and #5).
Aries and Taurus are both paired externally (1). Both are land animals (2). They are a pair of pairs (#2 and #3).
Each grouping is connected by two different factors
Gemini is #4. VMs Gemini does not show twins like the Castor and Pollux version. The VMs is a marriage. A marriage of male and female is not a pairing of 'likes', but a pairing of complementary opposites.
The more structure that is recognized in the VMs, the harder it is maintain that structures, coincident with historical facts, were included by accident. Take the *fifth* symbol in the 'so-called' four by 17 sequence. The symbol (EVA v) is actually an inverted "v" shape, which has three traditional interpretations that are backed up by traditional structure of the relevant system.
As the Greek alphanumeric symbol 'Lambda', it is properly distanced from the first symbol (EVA o), {three places intervening}, which coincides with the Greek placement of 'Omicron', reading right to left, which was allowed in Greek.
As the medieval numeral "7" it is properly placed in relation to the second symbol (EVA l), {two places intervening}, which coincides with the medieval numeral "4", with shapes as referenced on the dress of the image of Typus Arithmetica.
And in Roman numerals "V' is obviously "5". There it is "5" in the fifth place inverted.
All three interpretations have structural verification. All three systems function as numerical sequences. But if the structure was intended to reveal something more. nobody is seeing it yet.
Okay so below is my "pairs of pairs" diagram I've written up, showing the similarity of how glyphs look like they're formed (to me at least).
Its a bit convoluted, and I'm thinking maybe the best thing to do is create a video to explain how to read the chart, but the basic principal is;
Left side - all glyphs have a Curve affiliation
Right side - all glyphs have a Line affiliation.
Left hand margin bracketed shapes - show what modifier has been added to the curve or line, (or affiliated glyph)
Boxes - contain similar "pairs"
Numbers inside boxes - show "pairs of pairs", or boxes which have some kind of affiliation with each other. (Note, I am not convinced that my theory is right, concerning numbers 4 and 5.)
Dotted boxes - I am not sure where to place these, but they should appear somewhere.
At the moment, [q] is noticeably absent! (Help placing?)
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