I have been assuming that if there were storehouses of parchment in the late medieval period, they were probably in scriptoria.
This is partly true, but I didn't know that often the person commissioning manuscripts was expected to supply the parchment. I discovered this gradually, over the years by reading historical works that discuss early manuscripts and scriptoria. The patron may have purchased skin from parchmenters as it was needed.
This may have changed when the printing press changed the creation and availability of books. There was probably a point where people realized handwritten manuscripts would soon be obsolete and parchment would no longer be needed. Some may have been redistributed or used for other purposes. I imagine this transition probably happened sometime in the late 15th or early 16th century.
So, it's an interesting piece of medieval trivia... if you want scribes to create a copy or a new work... bring the skin. Also, in the early medieval period they used the Greek word for calligrapher to describe scribes, but gradually other words were used as scribes specialized (e.g., notaries).
JKP,
this question has been addressed quite a few times, especially by people who had some interest in arguing that the MS could have been written a long time after the dating of the parchment.
Already at the time of the C-14 dating, people knowledgeable about medieval practices said that parchment was mostly prepared for immediate use. For the purpose of the dating of the Voynich MS, immediate could mean anything less than 10 years. This is because the uncertainty of the date of the parchment is even larger.
Did you ever find any reference at all to long-time storage of parchment at all?
The other point is the assumed relationship between introduction of printing and the production of parchment. A lot of mistaken views have been presented about this already.
Paper was gradually replacing parchment already before the introduction of printing, but it was not very popular. Even while it had become cheaper than parchment, it was considered to be of inferior quality.
By 1420 or so, when the Voynich MS was written, the MS could very well have been written on paper, and this would have been cheaper, but this seems to have been a choice by the MS composer. This implies that he opted for durability.
It took quite some years from the first successful printing jobs, for it to become a viable way of producing books in mass. Early prints were also made on parchment.
However, there was no way that the parchment production could keep up with the demand, and paper, which could be more mass-produced, gradually took over the role.
However, manuscripts (on paper and on parchment) were still being produced in parallel well into the 16th century.
(27-08-2020, 03:06 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
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Paper was gradually replacing parchment already before the introduction of printing, but it was not very popular. Even while it had become cheaper than parchment, it was considered to be of inferior quality.
By 1420 or so, when the Voynich MS was written, the MS could very well have been written on paper, and this would have been cheaper, but this seems to have been a choice by the MS composer. This implies that he opted for durability.
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Yes, I'm aware of this. I've been keeping track of which manuscripts were written on paper and which were written on parchment and when the transitions were occurring in different countries.
But the time it takes a scribe to handwrite a manuscript on parchment or on paper is not hugely different.
The amount of time it takes to print 200 copies of a book on paper is far less than the time it takes to handwrite a book on parchment or paper. Paper production ramped up substantially after the invention of the printing press and many presses in the HRE were directly connected to the mills.
But my point in starting this thread was simply to pass on the information I found (in a number of places over a number of years) that scribes did not always have storehouses of parchment. Often the patron was expected to provide the medium. I thought this might not be well known.
Sure, but that is why my main question was whether you ever found any reference to any storage (medium- to long-term).
It is a technical problem as well, not a question of price only, printing ink is based on oil and does not work well on parchment.
Another issue is the predilection of Italy for using parchment, while Germany preferred paper for reasons we do not know, there was an extensive trade and this is one of the reasons why I think the ms. was written in Italy
And I would like to see some evidence for the client supplying parchment in the 15th c.
Helmut, I don't know how prevalent it was in the 15th century for patrons to provide the writing medium.
This is not something I have actively researched. It is something I came across a number of times while I was researching other things and it was from a variety of dates. I posted the info because I thought it might not be well-known that this was sometimes the custom, and also because introducing a subject usually brings out more information about it from the research community (to fill out the picture).
(27-08-2020, 03:54 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is a technical problem as well, not a question of price only, printing ink is based on oil and does not work well on parchment.
Another issue is the predilection of Italy for using parchment, while Germany preferred paper for reasons we do not know, there was an extensive trade and this is one of the reasons why I think the ms. was written in Italy
It could be because parchment was also used as a building material in the north. Parchment soaked in wax or oil and stretched on a wooden frame. It was used as a kind of window glass. Lets light in but wind out. So to speak window glass of the poor man.
This was once mentioned in the construction of Guédelon Castle in France.
(27-08-2020, 04:26 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (27-08-2020, 03:54 PM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is a technical problem as well, not a question of price only, printing ink is based on oil and does not work well on parchment.
Another issue is the predilection of Italy for using parchment, while Germany preferred paper for reasons we do not know, there was an extensive trade and this is one of the reasons why I think the ms. was written in Italy
It could be because parchment was also used as a building material in the north. Parchment soaked in wax or oil and stretched on a wooden frame. It was used as a kind of window glass. Lets light in but wind out. So to speak window glass of the poor man.
This was once mentioned in the construction of Guédelon Castle in France.
The Campus Galli guys had tried it out, it was on ARTE
Here the film clip (SWR):
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Raw skin that has not been calcified was used.