The Voynich Ninja

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I have been told this is probably the best sub-forum to present hypotheses which don't fit the traditional academic paper approach.

Watch this space.  Coming soon.   A hypothesis that covers everything.

Bunny

[font=Times New Roman]"They roll us like we roll dice and count the numbers"[/font]
Watching.
Hi bunny
Not to be rude, we've known each other in cyberspace for a long time, but we'd prefer it if you directly posted the theory rather than put in trailers. We're not Hollywood!  Smile
Please remember all theory specific posts should stay on the same thread rather than opening multiple threads. Thanks.
(28-05-2020, 06:01 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi bunny
Not to be rude, we've known each other in cyberspace for a long time, but we'd prefer it if you directly posted the theory rather than put in trailers. We're not Hollywood!  Smile
Please remember all theory specific posts should stay on the same thread rather than opening multiple threads. Thanks.

Appreciated and glad that you are not being rude, but as far as I can see this is in one thread now and will stay in this one thread, the sub forum I was directed to.  Its not a "paper" theory more just a collection of thoughts, but being down in the basement of "Voynich Talk" (not quite "water cooler off topic chat" but pretty close), having no specific thread for musings of a very forest rather than trees a little build up cannot hurt - if one is to be found at all. 

If a sub forum for big picture forest ideas, thoughts and hypothesis is available I will be more than happy to confine my entire non specific thoughts there.  If this is not the right place for such a hypothesis to be presented then that is ok and I can present at a different forum, that is not a probelm, I want to be in the right place this time very importantly to coclude over 10 years of research.  This was of course the thrust of my original questions "which sub forum is the right one, and is the forum in general open to non conventional ideas and presentaions?"

It will blow everything out of the water, that is guaranteed.  I said I would present at the point when people maybe needed a little distraction form the current difficult situation we find ourselves in, a little light relief to the academic world to be sure, but still thoughts presented in all seriousness.  No Hollywood intention beyond that. In these times we all need distractions however small?
 
Bunny

[font=Arial][font=Times New Roman]"They roll us like we roll dice and count the numbers"[/font][/font]
It's okay, but just post the theory already Wink
Trying to build anticipation almost always has the effect that people will be disappointed.
(29-05-2020, 08:32 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's okay, but just post the theory already Wink
Trying to build anticipation almost always has the effect that people will be disappointed.

No problem  Bigsmile  not finished write up yet but will post that here in this thread if that is ok?  After June 6th has come and gone.  
I will continue a little anticipation on the VMs-list (Voynich Manuscript Mailing List & Forum) until then though and after 6th June post the proper and finished hypothesis here and there on the same day.  

Problem sorted I think.  Yes
Cheers,

Bunny
On the "Voynich Net Forum" (in Voynich and other chat section) also as I think that is viewable without signing up to the service.

Bunny
This is an overall conclusion concerning the manuscript, not presented as proof of fact and other scenarios are not ruled out regarding age, authenticity, origin or purpose.  I will now be returning to attempting to compare various known languages to the text, find similar imagery and look for astronomy in the conventional way.  If out of the box theories are not your thing suggest stop reading at end of part II.

thanks,
Bunny

I

Having looked at the manuscript for many years and tried various approaches to cracking it and observing the hypothesis of others, I conclude the only possible path that explains everything is the rather improbable outcome that all outcomes are correct (short of those seeking to deliberately mislead).  This could result from the glyphs of the text not being language, code, mathematical,  random, fake - but a series of containers.  The era it was made in, who made it, whether it was copied or an original work would not matter.

Aside from some rare glyphs such as those like pi and walking legs (probably a more ancient and common pictographic origin), and the entangled gallows, the standard glyphs and gallows seem to behave like Liposomes, Archaeosomes and Virosomes - acting purely as a series of containers and like those high-tech containers whatever is required can be put inside.  The containers can then be read straight up, juggled, transposed, added to or even reeled off in one long strand and broken up to produce something akin to monkeys randomly typing producing a page of Shakespeare.  They can be read forward backward, bottom up, top down, every 5th letter, every 8th letter, it doesn't matter.  They can be filled with: language (letters, pictographs, phonetic, syllable, groups of containers indicating Kanji, Abjad with or without pointing etc.); sound (music notes, frequencies); colours; numbers and mathematical symbols producing numerical sequences or formulae; elements, molecules, base sequences describing DNA or viruses etc.; stars; coordinates etc. etc.  Whatever can be thought of can be used.  Codes would not be necessary in the conventional sense unless values were first assigned, being the ultimate coded format, it would not of itself require a code to hide within.  All sources input into the containers produce output, and not only one unique form of manipulation.  I don't know how many people have even considered assigning values to the glyphs aside form letters looking for language text, that would be an interesting avenue.  To put it succinctly the conclusion is - in decoding the manuscript everyone is right, everyone is just uncovering a different aspect.

I had originally only considered the "one translation possible" solution, proof being a beginning to end translation reproducible by anyone, in the medieval (or possibly later) manner of language, showing all the letter variation of grammar tense and possession, but this has never been accomplished by anyone.  It may be that this is just the outcome that no one has encountered yet and one day a full and complex text translation in a single language is determined.  Language as we define it now is not the only option, and an all-encompassing use of simple verb stems/pictograms only and simple qualifiers for tense would allow the expression of many languages using a smaller range of glyphs.  On the most basic human level an outburst of emotion with either a smile or pained expression may show joy or sorrow, no more than a primordial utterance.  A word for existence accompanied by the word for joy or sorrow may describe birth or death, two opposite states of being expressed using the same root.  Language does not have to be technically complicated and even single words can express many concepts e.g. Sun: day; good; god; life; burn; heat; dry. etc.  a straight line with qualifier: weapon; tree; path; one etc.  If the Voynich manuscript does not seem in its repetitive simplicity to be able to be readable straight off as a full structured and expressive single language, then that is probably because it is not.

In looking at various language comparisons and at others translation attempts, though no one's translation attempts were accepted as "the solution", it became clear that random junk was not actually being produced and among some common themes emerged.  At the same time the astronomical folios were being translated and different events and objects presented in ways that were very different but again not junk.  In one folio the astronomy pointed to a comet or star, the same image when combined with text in a specific language and in the picture text the previous Sun, comet, star, astronomer became a god and the text referenced falling rocks, a c15th horoscope.  There was no one way. 

II

The suggestion put forward is that it is like an encyclopaedia but with infinite layers rather than pages, and what one sees is literally what one looks for, which page you turn the encyclopaedia to, what layer you look at.  Even if you only want one piece of information the rest of the encyclopaedia, whatever it contains in totality is present, and all of it has to be trawled through to find it, and if the query is uncertain then it may be hard to locate still.  The rest of it may be interesting and useful outside of the specific search area as its all information.  In a way you would see what you want to see, not said in a negative and narrow sense but rather in the broad sense of an entry within an encyclopaedia.  Therefore, If you look for astronomy you will find astronomy, if you look for plants you will find botany and medicine, if you look at genetics you will find lifeforms and diseases, if you look at Hungarian, English, German, Mayan, Sanskrit etc. you will find a narrative.  You may see jar vs microscope,  dragon vs armadillo,  zodiac vs calendar vs precession of the equinoxes vs astrological ages.  Looking at various attempts over time this seems also to not constrained by time, past, present, future all there - a parchment tesseract. The walking "pi" legs (not a container) on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. showing the most basic concept for backwards/forwards as does the zodiac.  This tesseract would be moved in 4 dimensions via the containers and this concept would not make it your average manuscript, however much it looks like one, whenever it was made.

The 1st three zodiac folios look to be the start of a calendar or astrological zodiac, nothing unusual there, except once again it does not seem to function as a straight up read one-way affair.  Beginning in Pisces and working way though astrological symbols to Capricorn (or Sagittarius), beginning in March/February Pisces and forming a monthly or zodiac-based calendar, beginning in Capricorn (or Sagittarius) and working through precession of the Equinoxes back to Pisces.  The month Pisces refers to may vary according to tradition and which type of astrological zodiac is referred to, whether pure astronomy and referring to constellations overhead and planets like Mars, or when the Sun is in a constellation.  As a calendar function, New Year's start in many months throughout the world often in January or March (spring for farming in Europe), but traditionally in Ireland for example it has started in February, Pisces and March again can account for either February or March .  Going backwards the Voynich manuscript zodiac moves through the astrological eras from the age of Capricorn (or Sagittarius) and ends in the age of Pisces, which we are currently in.  Pisces being shown as the last and final era in the manuscript, covering history from ~1 AD to now - a time of significance. The two signs before Taurus and Aries are shown quite differently to all the other zodiac folios.  The ages of Taurus and Aries cover history from -4000 BC, the start of great achievements of civilizations such as writing and the wheel, and a more refined and ordered society.  The Voynich zodiac folios can seemingly fit seamlessly into all guises.  Astronomy covering comets, planet positions, stars and events of significance (SN 5 BC on missing Capricorn folio?), astrology, calendar.    Backwards <= > forwards in the sky showing many historical events and future ones also? 

III

The harmonizing factor I have found over time is the presentation of an astronomical event and in a number of attempted translations and imagery in the manuscript by various people centre around the "eye".  The relevance of the eye is as ancient as man, found in Sumer as the Igigi, the Anunnaki, the Watchers1+2 (good + fallen), the winged gods and demons, the fallen angels, the Nephilim1, the Grigori, the Apkallu and then to Nephilim2 and their spirits, giants and demigods.  The eye of God, the evil eye, the eye of Ra, eye of Horus.  The fallen angles for example were said to have taught humans the skills of civilisation after being expelled from Eden.  The Watchers as fallen angels were said to have taught: Charms; root cuttings and botany (medicine?); knowledge of metals and metal weaponry making and jewellery; body decoration; sorcery; astrology; astronomy; meteorology and seasons; signs of the Sun (zodiac?); cycles of the Moon (and calendar?); metallurgy (different properties of hard and soft metals, iron mentioned for war making); idol making; combat; medicine and pregnancy.  And from there onto civilization, accelerated learning, building, farming beyond hunter gatherer or simple farmer, weapons beyond sticks and stones. art, music, perception of passing time etc.  The fallen angels are also said to have taken human women as wives and bore offspring of an unnatural chimera that brought havoc, their women becoming sirens.  The fallen angels in this category were removed for a time, said to be 70 generations from freedom on Earth to a place of holding (below Earth), but suggests being released after that for a time.  Other sources suggest their era of influence after release is short, so for their representatives or followers knowing this point crucial, a start point, a clear and unmistakeable sign.

Could the manuscript have been constructed in order to pinpoint the omen that signals their return, that marks the start of their era of influence on Earth?  From the sign to the almost complete destruction of the Earth, the end of civilization built over millennia and all of its knowledge, a return to prehistory and a blank slate for those who survive - with only a timespan of less than 20 years from sign to end?  The race is on to find any clue or record of the sign and so recognise it, a hunt through history, manuscripts, petroglyphs, lost civilizations, deep space telescopes, mathematics, the hunt is limitless.  While suggesting that the Voynich manuscript shows Pisces as the last era, that does not suggest that a sign is expected in the constellation of Pisces or in February/March, it sets the broad timeframe, the sign undetermined.  There are variations in the agreed timings of the age of Pisces but it's pretty much still now plus a way yet.

What could be expected following the sign that could be of great significance - speculation?  A time of renaissance unlike any seen before following the sign, technology not dreamt of, a way of life beyond anything imagined immersive between reality and for anyone who wants it, a time to save nature, restore the world to what it would have been without us.  The era though would be short-lived, the Earth bombarded by wave after wave of meteors and comets (f68r1) mostly of small size but not all, pushed out of their orbit and into a path with us by the approaching but unknown astronomical phenomenon which I have referred to being called the "Tawny Horse" in the Voynich manuscript.  The Earth ripped almost apart by the effect of the Tawny Horse as it approaches near to, but not into the Earth, leaving few survivors, no civilization, no technology, no history, no memory of how to restart.  The Watchers would be our champions, our saviours, promising to stop this, but that was never possible or intended, and abandoning the human race to their fate before the worst, they depart to highly technological underground cities to stay for generations in safety.  Sustained by AI, DNA and advanced technology allowing them to build and form lifeforms as they see fit, humans apart from a few no longer in their equation, eventually after generations to open their sealed doors and ascend - and we will not be welcome inhabitants of the recovering Earth.

IV

Conclusion - The Voynich manuscript may be one of many sources regarding the sign and its search through history in many differing formats and media, regarding the general subject matter of the Watchers and their relevance to us.  Examples may include the Prague, Old Town Square, buildings, clock and the Church of Our Lady before Týn, and the Salvator Mundi.  The web of this search is thought to spread much further than the context of this manuscript, into everything that makes up civilisation and throughout history. 

Truth, story, myth?
You will see what you want to see and find what you look for.


Watchers1 Original Watchers, not always referred to as fallen
Watchers2 Fallen angels
Nephilim1 Often used interchangeably with Watchers2
Naphilim2 Offspring of fallen angels and women
I'm not sure if I understand. What is the difference between your proposal and a Rorschach test?
So it's a sort of crystal ball, you gaze into it not to obtain meaning but to concentrate your mind and draw the results out of yourself.
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