The Voynich Ninja

(09-05-2020, 06:45 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Go on.....
If you look at different pictures, you can recognize a direction of flow.
...

It looks that way to me too. Whoever did the drawings was detail oriented.

(08-05-2020, 10:50 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is it salt water, so it's sea water?
There are springs in the Alps where since the Celts and Romans are known.
Salt water comes directly from the mountain. Some of it smells like rotten eggs. Some have a temperature of 40 degrees.
A famous salt spring is in the south of France near the Pyrenees, near the Spanish border.
Salt does not necessarily mean sea.

I said sea because of its size in comparison to the tube rivers, the tubes mean to me navigable rivers, those on which large ships can sail, so it is not likely to be a pond or a lake, per se, if given that context of size. Specifically, I see it as the Persian Gulf because of the two rivers becoming one and flowing into it, plus some other hints, like when i arrange my pages the previous is Lake Sevan (fresh water) and Lake Urmia (salt water),  and this is near where the Euphrates and Tigris rivers rise. The page after (other side of folio) is west India (Gujurat) which gulfs are the first bodies of water next along the eastern shore from the Persian Gulf, and then turning across to the Red Sea, directly across. It all flows, it follows the path of the water bodies. After that it speaks of the ancient canal to the Nile.

The springs in the Alps are also depicted in green on another page but in a different way. There is also a sulphur spring on the previous page to that one shown in yellow, depicted near a lake (in blue) in the shape of Garda, and there is one there irl (i assume the sulphur is the rotten egg smell you speak of).

So the tube in the Persian Gulf speaks to me of the previous state of the water body, i.e. how it came to be. The sea was not always there, it was many believe that the Garden if Eden might have existed in a place currently under water, or that used to be under water. This can be seen today in the depth of the gulf in comparison to the Oman sea, the previous river shows as the trench. 



This occurs on the next Red Sea page also, with the fish standing in for the trench there, from when there was a river system where the nymph stands on the Arabian coast. The water spray on her hand in the drawing can be seen in the landscape as erosion from an extinct river. Her hand is now volcanoes irl. 

Imagine a time during the last ice age, how this would be a pocket of livable space, with warmth due to volcanic activity. It seems perfectly plausible that this was one of the first places inhabited when humans migrated out of Africa, and falls in line nicely with the Anaximander fish mouth evolution idea.

@Linda
First and foremost it depends on where you are.
Example:
If I find a ladder in a Bible, you can see a way to God from it.
But if I see this ladder in a battle chronicle, it is most likely to be a storm ladder with which one can overcome walls.
Sometimes it is a medical device and sometimes one for torture.
A farmer would say you need it to harvest apples and pears.
In the end it is just a ladder. The book makes it what it represents and not the other way around.


The way I see it, you take details from the book of Genesis or Old Testament.
But since I can hardly find any religious symbol in the VM, I would not look for similar ones in a Bible or similar.
Science is science, and religion is religion. The VM author seems to keep this well.
Therefore it is almost impossible that I would follow your theory, even if it is well explained.
I'm sorry.

(09-05-2020, 07:14 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Linda
First and foremost it depends on where you are.
Example:
If I find a ladder in a Bible, you can see a way to God from it.
But if I see this ladder in a battle chronicle, it is most likely to be a storm ladder with which one can overcome walls.
Sometimes it is a medical device and sometimes one for torture.
A farmer would say you need it to harvest apples and pears.
In the end it is just a ladder. The book makes it what it represents and not the other way around.


The way I see it, you take details from the book of Genesis or Old Testament.
But since I can hardly find any religious symbol in the VM, I would not look for similar ones in a Bible or similar.
Science is science, and religion is religion. The VM author seems to keep this well.
Therefore it is almost impossible that I would follow your theory, even if it is well explained.
I'm sorry.

Where does the bible come into it with regard to my quire 13 theory? I am following the flow of water around the ecumene, talking about the history of geography and hydrology, with some smatterings of Greek philosophy thrown in. I think the vms authors eschew the biblical Genesis in favour of a more scientific earth history that goes far past 6000 years. I think the zodiac section goes with it, with the nymphs there also standing for civilization but this time not of place, but of time, specifically a great year, the time it takes for a cycle of precession to occur, about 26000 years. This is why they are unclothed in most of the sections, and why they are unclothed in quire 13 also, because we are talking speculations on what occurred pre written history, pre bible. I get a sense of archeology being involved also.

With regard to your flow directions, they work out for some of my interpretations. For me the lower ones in the bunch, are to me alpine rivers.

6 Araxes, flowing north and east (works)
3 Drin, doesn't work, points outward but rivers would flow the other way. 
5 Alpine Rhine, north (works)
8 Dnieper, doesn't work at the mouth, unless it is showcasing backflow from the black sea into the river. The rest is ambiguous.

The upper examples are more showing silt deposits in my opinion. 

With regard to the flow question re You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. i think it is from top to bottom, as follows:

From hot springs at the base of Mount Ararat into a river tube, being the Euphrates, which flows past mountains where another river tube arises and runs parallel (Tigris), they then join, get jumbled up, create some strange eddies, then flow together into the Persian Gulf. Pre history they continued through this area directly into the greater sea.

Aga, I agree context is important, but didn't you just say the thing floating in the water is a yoke?

@Koen
I wrote that it was a yoke. As a possible medical tool for putting joints back into alignment.
I didn't say it was water.
I see the colour of the liquid as an external application of the treatment ( cream, ointments, Possibly an alcohol - herbal solution ) while blue stands for internal application. ( medicine, tea ).
But I see water as a possible external therapy. ( bath )
But not as a lake or a river.

That moment when I finally "put my finger on" where I've seen certain symbolism / imagery before. Granted my perspective has been skewed by all these pics of torture racks, but the angle of the arm over the log recalls the Hanged Man, and the position of his leg:

The Hanged Man is the twelfth card of the Major Arcana in the traditional tarot deck.

A.E. Waite, The Pictoral Key to the Tarot Wrote:The gallows from which he is suspended forms a Tau cross — while the figure—from the position of the legs—forms a fylfot cross. There is a nimbus about the head of the seeming martyr. It should be noted that the tree of sacrifice is living wood, with leaves thereon; that the face expresses deep entrancement, not suffering; that the figure, as a whole, suggests life in suspension, but life and not death. [...] It has been called falsely a card of martyrdom, a card of prudence, a card of the Great Work, a card of duty [...] I will say very simply on my own part that it expresses the relation, in one of its aspects, between the Divine and the Universe.

12. THE HANGED MAN.--Wisdom circumspection, discernment, trials, sacrifice, intuition, divination, prophecy. Reversed: Selfishness, the crowd, body politic.

As with any of these interpretations of the VMs image — or all symbology really — context is the only real delineator between distinct parallels showing an intention and familiarity with a tradition, and coincidental similarities between things that weren't created with the same intention at all. And context in Voynichland is like money in a slum — it's what everybody's after, but there's just not much of it, so when a bit of it turns up, it gets fought over.

Whilst it has been suggested that the "green" waters are indicative of nothing I wonder what can be the cause of water being the green colour that we see in the Voynich. Assuming the author tried to reproduce the colour that he saw with his own eyes it becomes unimportant what the use of the terms "green" and "blue" was.

I think it is consistent with sulphurus hot springs, though there can be other explanations for "green" waters such as algae.