04-04-2020, 06:54 AM
Maybe we should have a thread specific to this topic.
Note, this thread is not about Newbold's theory (he thought the tiny variations in each VMS glyph was coded in Greek shorthand). I believe the VMS text is much too small to encode any kind of shorthand at the scale he suggested. This is to discuss whether there are Greek influences in the VMS glyphs.
I've said rather frequently that I think the VMS glyphs are primarily inspired by Latin, but I think there may also be a smaller percentage of Greek influences, so maybe we should discuss whether they exist and what they might be.
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Here are my ideas about it. Some are quite speculative, some I feel more strongly about.
1. Fairly speculative but maybe something to consider. Glyph order in the 57v chart 2nd ring.
I posted this idea a few years ago on another thread, but I think there might be Greek influences for the glyph order in the chart on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . I DON'T feel strongly about this, it's just a pattern I noticed. The chars in this pic (except for the 6th and 10th) actually match Latin shapes better than Greek, but maybe the ORDER of the characters was partly inspired by the Greek alphabet rather than the Latin alphabet. Greek alphabets were sometimes included in Latin manuscripts.
[attachment=4169]
If you start at the end of the alphabet (with omega) and then wrap around to the beginning, then you can get omega alpha beta gamma delta. This can be seen in the second ring from the outside by rotating old-style alpha (cipher alphabets frequently have rotated letters) and by adding a tail to gamma. The lack of a bottom-bar on delta is actually not uncommon (I have collected samples). Some scribes wrote delta without the crossbar.
It's not a full alphabet and they appear to have been either Latinized or cipherized. I'm leaning toward Latinized, but maybe the order of some of the Latin chars is inspired by Greek letters with roughly similar shapes. Note that the 6th character can be found in Coptic Greek (and sometimes also in scientific manuscripts). It's not a full alphabet, but if the VMS creator were aiming for secrecy, using a full alphabet that follows the Greek alphabet would be a sure giveaway. As I said, speculative, but I thought I'd put it out there.
2. Greek Abbreviation Symbol. The staircase symbol with a dot is a rare character in the VMS. It is a shape-mate for the Greek abbreviation for "atto". I've never seen this shape in a Latin-character manuscript and Latin abbreviations don't usually have this shape. I've only seen it in charts of Greek abbreviations, but there are a few abbreviations in Greek that are based on this general idea of a staircase+dot, so it might be a specific class of abbreviation.
3. Monogrammed/Overlaid Letters. I've blogged about benching and stacking in Greek. It was a common concept in Greek that didn't carry over into Latin scribal conventions the same way as some of the other conventions, but Latin scribes were familiar with common combinations like chi-rho and pi-rho and they sometimes used the Greek symbols, instead of writing out the words in Latin or in Latinized Greek. They also occasionally used the Greek numeral conventions (which were stacked and overlaid) to write large numbers in the margins, instead of using Roman numerals (I have posted examples in blogs).
4. Greek Concepts that Maybe Inspired Gallows Characters. Stacking and benching were common concepts in Greek letters and numerals (they had several number systems). The concept was not as common in Latin, but perhaps the VMS character cPh is a Latinized shape-mate inspired by Greek pi-rho or chi-rho (the Greek letter rho looks like Latin P). mu-rho was also stacked to write numbers.
5. The upper-right loops. It's possible there are ligatures and/or abbreviations in the VMS glyph-set. For example ch might be a ligature, sh might be a ligature or abbreviation (or both). In Latin, y, g, and m are common abbreviations. Many of these concepts were borrowed from Greek.
But there is a notable difference between Greek and Latin conventions... In Greek it was very common to attach a loop to the upper-right of a letter to add "e" or "o" and this convention was only partially used by Latin scribes. Latin scribes frequently added the small "o" to abbreviations like grado, modo, and quarto but they rarely added it to letters with ascenders as was common in Greek. This is probably because the Latin alphabet doesn't lend itself as easily to this specific convention.
As an example, if we look at Voynich characters t and p, each one has a loop on the upper right. This is not common in Latin UNLESS the loop has a tail to turn it into the (very common) "-is" abbreviation. In Greek, adding a loop (without a tail) to the upper right was very common. Adding a loop to the Greek letter pi, for example, turned it into "pe" or "po" or "peri". In Latin, if you added a small loop to a "T" (without a tail), it was usually an embellishment, not an abbreviation. If you added a loop AND a tail to a "T", it was an abbreviation for "-tis" (and its homonyms).
That's probably enough for one post.
This is circumstantial evidence, but taken together, perhaps the VMS creator had some exposure to Greek or adapted some ideas from Greek scribal conventions to invent the VMS glyph-set. The glyphs are mostly Latin, but some of the concepts appear to be Greek. Many Latin scribes and some university students (probably those studying the classics) had a basic familiarity with Greek characters even if they didn't know Greek.
Note, this thread is not about Newbold's theory (he thought the tiny variations in each VMS glyph was coded in Greek shorthand). I believe the VMS text is much too small to encode any kind of shorthand at the scale he suggested. This is to discuss whether there are Greek influences in the VMS glyphs.
I've said rather frequently that I think the VMS glyphs are primarily inspired by Latin, but I think there may also be a smaller percentage of Greek influences, so maybe we should discuss whether they exist and what they might be.
-------------------------------------
Here are my ideas about it. Some are quite speculative, some I feel more strongly about.
1. Fairly speculative but maybe something to consider. Glyph order in the 57v chart 2nd ring.
I posted this idea a few years ago on another thread, but I think there might be Greek influences for the glyph order in the chart on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . I DON'T feel strongly about this, it's just a pattern I noticed. The chars in this pic (except for the 6th and 10th) actually match Latin shapes better than Greek, but maybe the ORDER of the characters was partly inspired by the Greek alphabet rather than the Latin alphabet. Greek alphabets were sometimes included in Latin manuscripts.
[attachment=4169]
If you start at the end of the alphabet (with omega) and then wrap around to the beginning, then you can get omega alpha beta gamma delta. This can be seen in the second ring from the outside by rotating old-style alpha (cipher alphabets frequently have rotated letters) and by adding a tail to gamma. The lack of a bottom-bar on delta is actually not uncommon (I have collected samples). Some scribes wrote delta without the crossbar.
It's not a full alphabet and they appear to have been either Latinized or cipherized. I'm leaning toward Latinized, but maybe the order of some of the Latin chars is inspired by Greek letters with roughly similar shapes. Note that the 6th character can be found in Coptic Greek (and sometimes also in scientific manuscripts). It's not a full alphabet, but if the VMS creator were aiming for secrecy, using a full alphabet that follows the Greek alphabet would be a sure giveaway. As I said, speculative, but I thought I'd put it out there.
2. Greek Abbreviation Symbol. The staircase symbol with a dot is a rare character in the VMS. It is a shape-mate for the Greek abbreviation for "atto". I've never seen this shape in a Latin-character manuscript and Latin abbreviations don't usually have this shape. I've only seen it in charts of Greek abbreviations, but there are a few abbreviations in Greek that are based on this general idea of a staircase+dot, so it might be a specific class of abbreviation.
3. Monogrammed/Overlaid Letters. I've blogged about benching and stacking in Greek. It was a common concept in Greek that didn't carry over into Latin scribal conventions the same way as some of the other conventions, but Latin scribes were familiar with common combinations like chi-rho and pi-rho and they sometimes used the Greek symbols, instead of writing out the words in Latin or in Latinized Greek. They also occasionally used the Greek numeral conventions (which were stacked and overlaid) to write large numbers in the margins, instead of using Roman numerals (I have posted examples in blogs).
4. Greek Concepts that Maybe Inspired Gallows Characters. Stacking and benching were common concepts in Greek letters and numerals (they had several number systems). The concept was not as common in Latin, but perhaps the VMS character cPh is a Latinized shape-mate inspired by Greek pi-rho or chi-rho (the Greek letter rho looks like Latin P). mu-rho was also stacked to write numbers.
5. The upper-right loops. It's possible there are ligatures and/or abbreviations in the VMS glyph-set. For example ch might be a ligature, sh might be a ligature or abbreviation (or both). In Latin, y, g, and m are common abbreviations. Many of these concepts were borrowed from Greek.
But there is a notable difference between Greek and Latin conventions... In Greek it was very common to attach a loop to the upper-right of a letter to add "e" or "o" and this convention was only partially used by Latin scribes. Latin scribes frequently added the small "o" to abbreviations like grado, modo, and quarto but they rarely added it to letters with ascenders as was common in Greek. This is probably because the Latin alphabet doesn't lend itself as easily to this specific convention.
As an example, if we look at Voynich characters t and p, each one has a loop on the upper right. This is not common in Latin UNLESS the loop has a tail to turn it into the (very common) "-is" abbreviation. In Greek, adding a loop (without a tail) to the upper right was very common. Adding a loop to the Greek letter pi, for example, turned it into "pe" or "po" or "peri". In Latin, if you added a small loop to a "T" (without a tail), it was usually an embellishment, not an abbreviation. If you added a loop AND a tail to a "T", it was an abbreviation for "-tis" (and its homonyms).
That's probably enough for one post.
This is circumstantial evidence, but taken together, perhaps the VMS creator had some exposure to Greek or adapted some ideas from Greek scribal conventions to invent the VMS glyph-set. The glyphs are mostly Latin, but some of the concepts appear to be Greek. Many Latin scribes and some university students (probably those studying the classics) had a basic familiarity with Greek characters even if they didn't know Greek.