The Voynich Ninja

(04-04-2020, 02:36 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-04-2020, 02:34 PM)RenegadeHealer Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Just a suggestion, but I recommend you write "Copyright 2020 J.K. Peterson, with credit to Mark Knowles" conspicuously on that infographic, and consider adding a few less conspicuous You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I speak from experience; in medical school I created a number of similar illustrated infographics for study purposes. I let classmates distribute them freely, in the spirit of Benjamin Franklin. I stopped being as giving when one of them was plagiarized and altered, and I had no way of proving that I was the creator of the original. It's a jungle out there.

Ouch, sorry to hear it. Yes, I guess I have to keep that in mind. It's a jungle out there.

I suppose if we get into the question of copyright you could ask my permission for you to use my "table" image before deciding to copyright your response to it.

It's not enough to look at the pictures. You have to actually read the explanations to get anything out of these blogs:

Latin ris/tis/cis symbols in Latin manuscripts and VMS shape-mates: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Latin numerals and abbrev. symbols that are similar to chars in the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Examples of benching and stacking concepts in Latin and Greek: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Examples of 4o in the VMS and possible analogs in Latin-character manuscripts: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
4o is sometimes written like EVA-k without the descender (maybe it's not a 4 shape): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Examples of 4 glyphs, and crosses in seals and talismanic symbols**: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Examples of Coptic letters in the Tranchedino codes and of 4o in Latin manuscripts: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Indic-Arabic numerals & syllabic scribal concepts common to both Latin and Indic alphabets in the middle ages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

A possible double-cee shape in the VMS: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Various uses of the double-cee symbol in Latin manuscripts: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This isn't all of them but I have to work now, I so can't finish the list until another time.


**The merchant marks example is interesting because it also uses some of the Greek concepts of benching and stacking and some of the traditional seal styles include chi and rho and chi-rho symbols. Some of the merchant seals use some of the numeric symbol-styles found on Greek coins.


Mark, while scanning through the blogs, I just realized why you might not have seen all the examples. Some of them are mixed in with blogs about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and since your posts have been focusing on the main text, not 116v, I probably didn't link them. Other examples have been posted on the forum and I have difficulty finding specific posts among hundreds of threads (especially when it's a graphic), so it's chore to try to find them again.

(04-04-2020, 02:56 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I suppose if we get into the question of copyright you could ask my permission for you to use my "table" image before deciding to copyright your response to it.

Copyright is only for original works. You copied glyphs out of other works, which is not original. Alphabets are also not "original" (unless you designed it yourself) and in most places not copyrightable.

You could claim that the way you arranged them as a chart was original. You had to select appropriate ones and organize them. That might qualify for what they call a "compilation copyright" (similar to the way a dictionary is copyrighted—it's the arrangement of the information, not the information itself that is original). Only a legal system could decide whether there was sufficient originality in the arrangement to qualify for a compilation copyright. This is based partly on proportion and partly on how easy it would be for others to replicate it independently, but it is something decided by judges and lawyers, not lay people.


I used your table for scholarly/editorial noncommercial purposes and did not distribute it outside of the forum. That falls under Fair Use guidelines.

[attachment=4170]
Now it's getting fun.
I don't get it, you guys are arguing about something the NSA did a long time ago. Probably others, too.

(04-04-2020, 04:21 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Now it's getting fun.
I don't get it, you guys are arguing about something the NSA did a long time ago. Probably others, too.

I haven't seen that NSA chart before, but for the most part I agree with it (there are a couple that aren't quite right, they mixed up the eius and cis abbreviations and the ur/tur abbreviation doesn't look like an r, it is almost always written like a 2, but their chart is good enough to get the point across, and it's pretty good considering they didn't have the Internet for reference—we are lucky to see so many manuscripts).

It's Mark who seems reluctant to acknowledge the similarity to Latin scribal conventions, not me.

Sorry
The report is too big to place here
NSA report
somewhere around here.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-04-2020, 04:25 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-04-2020, 04:21 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Now it's getting fun.
I don't get it, you guys are arguing about something the NSA did a long time ago. Probably others, too.

I haven't seen that NSA chart before, but for the most part I agree with it (there are a couple that aren't quite right, they mixed up the eius and cis abbreviations and the ur/tur abbreviation doesn't look like an r, it is almost always written like a 2, but their chart is good enough to get the point across, and it's pretty good considering they didn't have the Internet for reference—we are lucky to see so many manuscripts).

It's Mark who seems reluctant to acknowledge the similarity to Latin scribal conventions, not me.

I acknowledge and acknowledged there is overlap, but I disagreed with you when you said initially that the Voynich glyphs all had that origin. And I question and questioned the basis for saying they all belong to the more nebulous wider set that you subsequently described.

(04-04-2020, 03:51 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-04-2020, 02:56 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I suppose if we get into the question of copyright you could ask my permission for you to use my "table" image before deciding to copyright your response to it.

Copyright is only for original works.

I was joking about copyright. I can't imagine that either of our images would merit copyright.

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(04-04-2020, 04:25 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(04-04-2020, 04:21 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Now it's getting fun.
I don't get it, you guys are arguing about something the NSA did a long time ago. Probably others, too.

I haven't seen that NSA chart before, but for the most part I agree with it

The NSA chart is OK, but it rather falls short in some areas of matching glyph claims.

Mark, do you understand what the chart represents?

[attachment=4171]
Sorry, he's not in.
But he looks like he is.
I think Rene put it on his website too