The Voynich Ninja

Sorry, I was in too much of a hurry when I posted that. I meant the four "elements", the four "humors" and the four "temperaments".

(17-12-2018, 09:13 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Likely someone with greater knowledge and skills than mine will be able to tell us what exactly this diagram represents (there's an accompanying text in the MS).

I don't claim to have greater knowledge or skills, but I grabbed the chunk of text closest to the picture, expanded the abbreviations and got this:

Siderumque cursus naturitates ho?? a mores predicare conantur id est quis quali signo fuerit natus. aut quem effectum habeat vite qui nascitur. Cuius superstitionis genus. constellationes latini vocatur id et notatione syderum quomodo se habeant quisque qui nascitur. Primum autem stellarum  interpertes. magi nuncupantur sunt. Sed sicut de his legitur in evangelio. nato xpo annuntiaverur?/annuntiaverunt?. Postea hoc nomine soli mathematici cuius parus scientiam usque ad evangelium fuit concessa. ut xpo edieto nemo ex inde nativitatem alicuius. de cel o interpretaretur. Horos copi dicti quod horas nativitatis hominum speculantur. Capit. LXXXIII ...

Unfortunately, it isn't very helpful. It talks in generalities about astrology and horoscopy, with references to the birth of Christ, but there isn't anything specific to the drawing.

There might be something more relevant in one of the other short chapters but I don't have time to read Latin right now. My clients all need to spend their budgets before Dec. 31st and want everything at the last minute (plus I have to do tax documents), so it's crazy time from now until January.

So the joining of hands, as Marco explains, means the sharing of a property. If the VM diagram is somehow based on Bede or something similar and uses the same visual vocabulary, what does that mean?

In Bede you get a nice linking-and-opposition scheme. But in the VM it's much less clear what the connection between the four figures is supposed to be. Still, there appears to be an awareness that the figures could connect, almost like an allusion to the Bede scheme. Left and Right are looking at Bottom. Left is reaching for bottom, while Bottom is reaching for Left and Right. Right is lifting his ball. Bottom appears to be looking at left? Top is reaching for Left and Right, but does not get any attention back. Top is looking at Left? 

[attachment=2584]

The "reaching figure peaking over the horizon" returns in the two-birds page, where similarly the figures in the four corners are reaching/looking at each other.

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Koen Gh,
I don't mean to be negative, but I genuinely don't understand. You refer to the joining of hands as important, yet in the Voynich diagram, the hands are not joined.
I get the resemblance of the circular structure of the page, divided into four, with four people, and I think this is a good find. But the joined hands element seems not so relevant to me.
We can't just discount the fact that two of them are facing away from us. There must be some inspiration drawn from a model like the Beinecke 404 ms I mentioned above, but even this doesn't account for the fact that two of the four are also only extending one arm.
Am I missing something?

I was comparing the poses of the figures in order to get a better grip on the differences between both diagrams. A kinship between the two is most probable, but the VM does its own thing with it, as so often seems to be the case.

This is from Sachsenspiegel and probably not of direct relevance, but it has arms outstretched and it has round items in the hands (which often represent coins).

Since we don't yet know how to interpret the objects the figures are holding in the various VMS "arms-held-up" diagrams, I thought I would post it here for general reference:

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Here's another combination diagram. It combines the elements (using initials in the corner) and the idea of gravitational force (BNF Fr. 14964):

[attachment=2587]

It looks like what JKP calls the combination diagram may have been more common than a gravity-free version. Here's another one ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. )

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(18-12-2018, 11:46 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We can't just discount the fact that two of them are facing away from us. 

I am also interested in this detail. The diagram has an ABAB structure, with Top and Bottom being very similar, and Left and Right less so. In diagrams representing the elements the opposite sides are the most different elements (e.g. water and fire). Here it seems that the opposite sides "have something in common".
Some investigation about the symbolism of figures facing away could be fruitful...

PS: something that could fit what I think: Right: Day (the ball could stand for the sun); Left: Night; Top and Bottom: morning and evening Dusk. This doesn't explain most of the details (e.g. the two figures facing away) but it is at least compatible with the ABAB scheme.

The bottom figure and top figure are looking in a different direction though. It looks like the top figure is looking entirely away from us, while the one in the bottom is presented in back-three-quarter view. For example, his/her chin has been drawn. The hair has been drawn differently as well, with half-long sleek hair bottom and shorter, pointy hair for the one on top.

I was thinking (pure speculation) that the figures are positioned as if they are going to pass the ball around. If the top figure is North, that could mean that when the ball (Sun) is with him, it is not visible. But then it would not be very consistent to represent the South as facing away as well...