Hi everyone,
I am wondering one thing: What is EVA-b?
I checked René’s webpage about You are not allowed to view links.
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Quote:As it turned out, there were three single characters that might be called unusual because they did not appear in any of the previously defined transcription alphabets, but which occurred more than 10 times in the MS. These three characters: b, u and z were assigned their own 'Basic Eva' letter (b, u and z respectively)
However, I did not see EVA-b or EVA-u on voynichese.com.
Then I checked You are not allowed to view links.
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du) as ligature an (
dan). Though a bit unexpected, at least I’ve found it.
So, the only remaining question is, what is EVA-b?
I checked the original images page-by-page, and found voynichese.com has You are not allowed to view links.
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b). Is this it? Is voynichese.com, or the transcript they use, systematically transcribe EVA-b as EVA-n? Or, is EVA-b something else that I haven’t found yet?
(04-10-2018, 06:14 AM)ChenZheChina Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
Then I checked You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and found EVA-u on f89v1 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). At the same spot, voynichese.com recognize this word (du) as ligature an (dan). Though a bit unexpected, at least I’ve found it.
If this were Latin, then (
du) would not be a ligature of (
dan). They would not be different ways to write the same thing, and a ligature would not be used in this way at the end of a word because it would be ambiguous.
In Latin
du is "a" with a tail, which is the same as putting a line over the top of the "a" (a macron, which indicates an abbreviation). The tail is simply there for rapid writing, rather than lifting the pen and adding a line over the "a".
Similarly,
dan would be read (in Latin) as dav with the "v" having a tail. Thus it would be an abbreviation once again. So you can see, it would confuse to use "av" ligature here and would be ignoring the meaning of the tail. In medieval Latin (and possibly in Voynichese), the tail was not an embellishment, it was an abbreviation symbol. At the ends of words, it often stood for "er" but it could also mean that "n" or "m" (or other letters) were missing at or near the end of the word. Abbreviations were intrinsic to medieval western languages. They had many different apostrophe symbols.
There's no guarantee that Voynichese tails have the same significance as Latin tails (perhaps only the shapes were copied), but it's important to know that in Latin, the tails are very meaningful and usually represent at least one missing letter.
Dear Zhe,
the transcriptions that are provided at voynichese.com have been made before the introduction of these three characters. If you go to this table at my site:
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at the bottom you may find a link to the "ZL" transcription which uses these characters.
(04-10-2018, 06:36 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the transcriptions that are provided at voynichese.com have been made before the introduction of these three characters. If you go to this table at my site:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
at the bottom you may find a link to the "ZL" transcription which uses these characters.
Hi René,
Thank you for your transcription. Now I have one more source that could be used as reference when making my own transcription.
And I’m sure that the
eeen series on voynichese.com are supposed to be
eeeb. Thanks!
The difference between n and b is that the first looks as if comprised from i and a tail, while the second from e and tail. Same thing for m and g.
(04-10-2018, 06:36 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Dear Zhe,
the transcriptions that are provided at voynichese.com have been made before the introduction of these three characters. If you go to this table at my site:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
at the bottom you may find a link to the "ZL" transcription which uses these characters.
Hi René,
I downloaded your ZL_ivtff_1b.txt and am in progress making transcription.
Thank you for your great effort. Your transcription is very well. Even extended EVA letters are utilized so that we do not need to hesitate what to transcribe when encountering weirdos.
Just now, I found this in You are not allowed to view links.
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<f22v.9,+P0> okshor.shody.chol.t[ch:ee]hol.otaiin.daiin
I guess you might mean t[ch:ee]ol without the extra h.
I’ll update this post if I find more small mistakes.
In terms of the language and characters, here is a copy of a post I put on a youtube video, for me this is the most logical reason as to why it has taken so long and so difficult to translate this document.
When you hear about cryptologists struggling with this document, that is basing their work on looking for a code or an automated translation to one language, however my "theory" and its just a theory, is that its a sub language made up of many.
"This is such good progress at last, although the heavy ancient Turkish language influence is a shock to me, I was always under the impression that the language was a blended mix of ancient romani (from india) language and sub Aramaic language such as syraic however this would put the language very close to turkey so does make sense. It is believed the romani's travelled from india through the middle east before settling in Europe. If you add all this up the timeline makes sense as there is a temple in india that has a murial that 100% matches a page from the book. The migratory route explains why the manuscript has taken so long to translate as the people travelling would have learnt so many new words, languages and dialects and evolved their language endlessly. The migrating timeline also explains how this manuscript ended up in Italy Europe when it has lingual influence from the middle east and asia."
*Edit
In this theory it allows us/you to transfer all "characters" (except the ,,,curvesymbol with the various numers of ,,) all of these "characters" into letters or phonetics of romani and syraic/mandaic (both sub languages of the ancient Aramaic).
*Edit
I am merely stating a theory and another further extension of this theory could be, if this book was inspired and created by the romani's on their travels, the you could add when they got to Europe, they "paid" a "medieval" publisher to create the manuscript based on their work. This could explain why its been so hard to translate, if the amazingly documented pages and stunning artwork were just "copied" from notes, it would explain why no one in europe can translate a language created by people who traveled 1000s of miles learning many new languages on their travels, also the note pages would have been destroyed, so we also have no way of translating that way.
Finally I am not saying I am an expert, I do not have the intelligence to attempt to translate the manuscript myself, I am just trying to use logical investigative information as to why a 600 year old document cannot be translate with the so called intelligence we have now in the modern world. This is the only theory I can come up with as it introduces so many factors that would contribute to why we cannot translate this document.
Hi RyanNozzoid , and welcome to the forum.
Please try to stay on topic and post your considerations in appropriate threads. Would you fail to find an appropriate thread, please don't hesitate to open a new one.