At the time of Rudolf, one florin was 60 'Kreuzer' and one Taler was 70 'Kreuzer'.
There were also gold 'Cronen' and ducats, occasionally specifically called Venetian ducats.
Both were over 60, but not quite so constant.
This appears quite clearly from the many records still preserved in the National Archives in Vienna.
This link implies a nice mathematical puzzle:
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All four denominations (Taler, Florin, Ducats and Crowns) are equal to an integer number of Kreuzer.
Who can derive the rates?
Edit:
For those who have a hard time understanding the text, in summary it says:
For some gold chains: 416 crowns plus 10 ducats labour cost
For some bezoars: 600 florins plus 7 crowns plus 8 taler labour cost
For three clocks: 385 florins, 450 taler and 300 taler.
All together this is 2355 florins plus 41 Kreuzer.
Quote:After 1620 the Taler was deliberately deprecated, so it even makes sense for Mnisowsky not to talk about Talers.
Can't agree with that. Suppose 500 taler is worth N USD, and now we have neither talers nor ducats, but we don't say that the MS was bought by Rudolph for N USD, we say "600 ducats", because that was what he (supposedly) paid. Likewise, Mnisovsky would have said "500 taler", unless his report is corrupted by Marci. Like e.g. he said "500 taler which was worth 600 ducats back then", but then Marci truncated it for "600 ducats".
(20-07-2018, 12:41 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At the time of Rudolf, one florin was 60 'Kreuzer' and one Taler was 70 'Kreuzer'.
There were also gold 'Cronen' and ducats, occasionally specifically called Venetian ducats.
Both were over 60, but not quite so constant.
This appears quite clearly from the many records still preserved in the National Archives in Vienna.
This link implies a nice mathematical puzzle:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
All four denominations (Taler, Florin, Ducats and Crowns) are equal to an integer number of Kreuzer.
Who can derive the rates?
Edit:
For those who have a hard time understanding the text, in summary it says:
For some gold chains: 416 crowns plus 10 ducats labour cost
For some bezoars: 600 florins plus 7 crowns plus 8 taler labour cost
For three clocks: 385 florins, 450 taler and 300 taler.
All together this is 2355 florins plus 41 Kreuzer.
I've got indefinitely many solutions, for example:
Taler = 41kr
Florin = 41kr
Ducat = 779kr
Crown = 41kr
or
Taler = 51kr
Florin = 464kr
Ducat = 21kr
Crown = 1411kr
Probably missed something
If what Rene said is correct (florin = 60, taler = 70 Kreuzer, the others both over 60 Kr.) then unless I've made a mistake the only solution is that a crown was worth 67, a ducat 84 Kreuzer.
(20-07-2018, 03:06 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Probably missed something
Taking into account that 1 Florin = 60 Kreuzer and 1 Taler = 70 Kreuzer,
1 crown = 67 Kreuzer
1 ducat = 84 Kreuzer
may be the solution. Not sure it's unique.
Well who was ultimately at a loss, Rudolph or the bookseller?
This type of equation in principle has an infinite number of solutions (or none at all).
One can eliminate the cases where any of the results is a negative number, and under that condition the possible number of solutions is most probably finite. The cases of Farmerjohn are both also correct, but not very realistic.
To Anton: I already indicated that this is speculation, and so is your response.
Most importantly, however, is that this bit (the amount paid) is probably the least reliable part of the Marci letter.
It is worth looking at cases where a similar amount was paid, but if in the end the acquisition is identified, and the amount turns out to be different, then this should not be considered a big issues.
The gold silver ratio was about 1 : 10 around 1500 and about 1 : 15 after the influx of New World silver (the American gold had no influence) which caused inflation around 1600
Gold and silver ratios could and did vary when states tried to use bimetallic precious metal coinages.
Rudolf may have used one denomination (eg taler or ducat) for his accounts. His treasury, however, probably contained all sorts of coins then in circulation, just as banks today keep gold in bars and coins of various kinds. Then and now, as long as the weight and fineness of each denomination is known, this presents no problems.
So while Rudolf’s accounts may refer to x-hundred talers (for example), if the seller wanted (say) ducats, he could have been physically paid in ducats and the taler equivalent entered in Rudolf’s ledger.