The Voynich Ninja

(05-05-2019, 03:10 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.davidjackson actually  

Sorry!

I guess this ornate representation counts as an example of Sun with wavy rays (and Moon) with faces earlier than 1450: s. XIII/XIV (turn of the 14th century).
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Another one on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Still it seems that with or without straight rays, wavy rays are more typical of the second part of the 15th century and later.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. dated between 1490 and 1499.

I wonder why the Sun faces often look mildly depressed.

By the end of the 15th century there were scads of them. I wonder if this might be a ripple effect from the alchemical manuscripts.

(05-05-2019, 05:31 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.By the end of the 15th century there were scads of them. I wonder if this might be a ripple effect from the alchemical manuscripts.

Could be. There were few illustrated alchemical manuscripts in the first half of the 15th century. Here is one (~1420) Zürich Zentralbibliothek You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. – Aurora consurgens. Straight rays on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Manchester MS Rylands "German MS 1" has some moon and sun faces and wavy lines, and is alchemical.
However, its date is not very precise: just 15th century.

Link:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(05-05-2019, 08:32 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Manchester MS Rylands "German MS 1" has some moon and sun faces and wavy lines, and is alchemical.
However, its date is not very precise: just 15th century.

Very nice. I'm pretty sure it's late 15th century. Alchemy books with so many illustrations did not exist before then I think. Compare with an other Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (ca. 1430).

The motif "Sun and Moon with Faces" (King and Queen) appears regularly in the essential, alchemical works. It can be found, for example, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. But these are both works from the 16th century. So they do not fit into the timeframe of the VMS.
For the 15th century, the Donum Dei would be worth mentioning, but I'm not sure about the motif.

Buch der heiligen Dreifaltigkeit - Mscr.Dresd.N.110 (1492) f. 3v:
Yet another nice Sun with wavy rays.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Smaller sun and moon on f. 2r:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

To be honest, I was not expecting to see the origin of sun and moon faces in alchemical manuscripts, because, indeed, there are only few illustrated alchemical manuscripts from the early 15th century.

The oldest surviving copy of the Buch der Hlg. Dreifaltigkeit is, to the best of my knowledge London, Wellcome WMS 164, of which I can't remember a complete digital copy. However, it has been mentioned in this forum several times already.

A more likely source seems to be wood cuts used for early copies of Dante's Divina Commedia.

From Edith Sherwood:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
also already discussed by Nick Pelling:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Runkelstein Castle, bathroom ceiling painting:


Note how they are looking over at each other, a feature also displayed by the Voynich Sun/Moon faces.

ETA: I just realized this painting had previously been noted by Julian Bunn in his article on Runkelstein: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.