JKP, if you could share your full data set on the zodiacs (I know it was a lot of work, so I perfectly understand if you don't want to), I would be interested in building a machine learning classifier that, given some input features (e.g. is virgo male? is sagittarius human? etc.) predicts the most likely location and time period for the VM.
If you don't want to share all the images and you already have features for each zodiac you collected (including time and location), that would also work.
Let me know what you think
Very nice, Paris. You deserve your name
Yet another indication that the VM Zodiac symbols descend from earlier French examples (whatever their
immediate example may have been).
What would they be doing?
And are we certain that they are both male? Clothing for men and women could be identical before the 15th century. It's hard to see for certain, but if the green one is belted higher, this would be the woman.
The drawing style, dress, faces and even the trees in the background all look period appropriate. So even if they were not original, then I'd say the design certainly is.
If this is a man and a woman, then the pose is what I'd expect of a marriage or betrothal contract, whereby they hold hands while the man offers an object to the woman.
(27-10-2020, 11:49 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The drawing style, dress, faces and even the trees in the background all look period appropriate. So even if they were not original, then I'd say the design certainly is.
If this is a man and a woman, then the pose is what I'd expect of a marriage or betrothal contract, whereby they hold hands while the man offers an object to the woman.
Hi Koen,
this French web page confirms what you say:
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Of the zodiac signs, only Taurus and Capricorn were replaced in the XVI Century.
The two figures appear to be males: the women in Virgo and Libra have longer dresses that cover their feet.
The Gemini illustration is interpreted as the two men exchanging two objects with both hands, but (like you) I only see an exchange in the upper hands. It could be a leaf or a small plant, as the French web page says.
Interesting. It might still be some kind of trade then, whether they exchange two objects or shake hands to seal the deal.
I wonder whether Zodiac medallions in manuscripts got their shape because of their connection to these kinds of rosette windows. It's certainly possible given the much greater public prominence of the latter.
The browsing goat is a very common theme in manuscripts and also in zodiacs, but I think it's a good idea to explore families that use it as an emblem, as Paris has done. People tend to draw things that are familiar, even when they are copying from other sources.
I was curious about how many zodiacs include browsing goats. Here is what I found...
Out of about 700 zodiac series, with about 650 of them being complete, there were only 13 that included browsing goats. Jumping goats are more common than browsing goats.
So browsing goats are quite rare in zodiac imagery. The date range was c. 1260s for two of them, 14th century for 3 of them, and the rest are 15th century with a few in the early 16th century.
So, either the VMS goat is from a non-zodiac source, or it fits in the general time period in which browsing goats were included in zodiacs (late 13th century to early 16th century).
I see browsing goats in non-zodiac sources quite frequently. They are in a variety of manuscripts, religious, scientific, classical literature. They are sometimes in the margins nibbling on decorative foliage. They are almost always standing on their hind legs.