The Voynich Ninja

I like the drawing, bi3mw, very cool.

Yeah, kind of Escherian. You illustrate quite well what I meant with the stair climbing

@Koen: Escherian is kind of flattering. - So you think that positioning of the "cloudbands", "umbrellas" and "pinecones" along the surface of a three-dimensional space is acceptable ? All other nymphs ( without these accessories ) would be sequentially positioned along the tubes in this model.

I don't know, I find it hard to mix elements from both types of quire 13 pages. There's the pool pages on one hand and then the ones with the more individualized nymphs on the other. They might use the visual vocabulary differently or treat a different subject or a different angle on the same subject.

I only have a general idea about the pine cones - they are likely to represent mountains. But what does this mean in combination with the umbrellas? I doubt anyone knows for sure at the moment.

(15-11-2017, 08:38 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


What could it be and why would it be above this nymph? I've likened it to certain things before but I'm unable to fully understand its significance. What do you think?

Hi all, just came across this thread for the first time. Interesting thoughts about what it could be. Thought i would add my own interpretation for consideration.

Koen, really interesting that you got a Demeter/Persephone vibe from this nymph, as i had named her Hecate, the third in that particular goddess triad. I had found the name to fit in with my hypothesis regarding the namesake geographer Hecataeus to be involved, albeit somewhat updated.  

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Your statement about the pinecones being mountains is also related, although i think those indicate volcanic rock. You say you have a hard time reconciling pools and nymphs, i think it is the difference between water and land. On this page, it is land we see for the most part, except for the tube river, and the general water coming down the mountain motif.

Overall, I take this nymph as a personification of Mother Earth, with connotations of seasons, agriculture, and of land sea sky and underground activity alternatively brought in and connected by the three goddess personifications, and the threepart goddess as well. 

I think of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as the first page, and as such, she would be the first nymph, simulaneously greeting us and sending us off on a journey around the known world. She is in full nomadic stance, one of the only nymphs to have her full body unencumbered, ie not sunk into the ground, water, or horizon.

Recently i have been rereading Strabo's Geography and am still finding a lot that fits there too, especially the part about starting at Sagres Point, Portugal. A Strabo quote from a wiki page:

Quote:The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is the westernmost point of the inhabited world.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font] The country next to it is called [i]You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font][/i], "wedge", in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from its shape. 

So, here on f76v, we have a wedge shape, drawn in a style i take to mean sedimentary rock/mountain/promontory within the vms imagery. Seems similar to me.


In this image of JKP's, you can see some similarities of rock depiction, except there is more crystallization going on with the metamorphic volcanic rock, as indicated by the circles. The blue rock to the right of the second volcano, this to me is sedimentary rock, with added vegetation. This seems similar to me to Beatus style mountains in historical cartography, among others.

If what was pointing north in the diagram was pointing southwest, it would look very similar to the part of Portugal to be found between the Tagus and Guadiana rivers (as Strabo further describes the wedge), the latter acts as the boundary between Spain and Portugal for a stretch. 

If you zoom into the point of the triangle shape of this greater promontory of southern Portugal, you get a shape resembling that which surrounds the nymph. So it sort of morphs, by turning 180 degrees to zoom into its closer shape.

Except, as we can see, St Vincent, the cape to the left, would be more westerly than Sagres point, the one she is pointing at with the triune of grain (which i take also as a hint to her identity as Demeter, part of the tripartate goddess (this may also pull in another tripartate deity, insofar as much of the history of cartography being linked to Jerusalem as its center). The error in putting Sagres point as westernmost is because Strabo's Spain was set at an angle where St. Vincent would be northeast of Sagres, and the Pyrenes mountains were northsouth instead of eastwest. It is interesting, my parents went to Portugal for a vacation recently and they were told St Vincent was still the most western point of Europe.



This feature seems to have been corrected by the vms artist insofar as how it has been drawn, although still not pointing southwest, even if you do point the double promontory to the west, Cape St Vincent is drawn longer and would still be the most westmost of the two, as it is shown in the south facing version as well. Sagres point is also interesting historically within the carbon dating of the vms as connected to Henry the Navigator. Click on the Sacred Cape link above for more info on that. Notable too, is the fact that Henry eventually moved his fleet to the area near Lisbon. I think it might be home for the vms also.

If you morph it out again, the flower can be thought to be touching the area near Lisbon, as the northern area of the entire section we are speaking of (and she just grew huge and spun herself around as well). In this case the two extensions around the nymph are the two rivers, although they both run down, instead of their normal courses. The nymph is pointing at the Tagus to the north in this morph. What is interesting about that, is that this is where the truly most western point of mainland Europe exists, Cabo da Roca, just north of the northern side of the mouth of the Tagus. She is pointing at the correct location of the most westernmost point of Europe.

That to me is analagous to this nymph, which, in my interpretation of the page order, ends the contiguous tour of Europe. Again, could this be home? We both start and end here. First it is land portrayed, then it is water, specifically the mouth of the river which meets the Atlantic Ocean. Back then, when the silt hadn't yet made a more complicated shape of the river mouth that we have today.



There were cartographic and merchant communities living in Lisbon at the time, many of the people originated from within the Mediterranean, where most of the map making had been done up until that time, especially those of the portolan tradition. The later versions of these maps were made by the Portugese, in order to incorporate the data they gained in their explorations, although the first known of these appear around 1492.

I think bi3mw's drawing is great, by the way. I agree, very Escherian. I like how it mimics the morphing i see in the vms imagery, turning, zooming, drilling down. It speaks to me of the second half of the tour which takes us back to the Black Sea and on to the Caspian Sea and around Asia and Africa, as far as they were known to a certain point in time. It seems more the ecumene of Hecateus to me than Strabos', although it is close too. Going around again in the vms is similar to Hecateus' two part book structure for his Geography. He had Gilbraltar as the start of his ecumene tour. I think it was Cosmas that had a smaller ecumene from Cadiz to mount Sinai. These beginning places are all to be found depicted on f76v, as they are in close proximity. Could it be a history of cartography built into mnemonics for a map?

Additionally, the rock drawing looks very similar to various parts of the Portugese coast. You can see the rock is sedimentary, and tends to have peaks and cutouts and bubbly bits, similar to what is drawn.



So, the triangle shape represents southern Portugal to me, and in the end, points out the area surrounding Lisbon and the Tagus river, while simultaneously depicting the closeup of the  promontories at St Vincent and Sagres Point, the larger area known for at least 2000 years (or 1400 at that time, or thereabouts) to be of a triangular shape, as described by Strabo.

From wiki

Although the [i]Geographica[/i] was rarely utilized in its contemporary antiquity, a multitude of copies survived throughout the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. It first appeared in Western Europe in Rome as a Latin translation issued around 1469.

This timing is close enough for me to believe its actual translation from Greek to Latin was done earlier, within cartographic circles, in order to decipher the place names.1469 was likely just when it was printed for public issue. Translations abound today but continue to be annotated with various explanations for discrepancies, updated place names, and alternative understandings of the original wording. My guess is it that it would have taken quite some time to translate the first copy into something intelligible, which would put that timing very close to the carbon dating window.

As a comparison, Ptolemy's Geography began to be translated around 1405 in Florence, my guess is the two were likely to have been studied around the same time by a select few to compare the names and develop a better understanding. Ptolemy style engraved maps first appeared in print around 1477 in Bologna, these were also likely completed earlier than this date of publishing.

I could see someone compiling these mnemonics as a way to have their own copy of secret, state of the art cartographic info and drawings while not getting caught with an actual copy of something that looks like a map.

Hmm, looking back at this now, something about the triangle stands out more to me than it did before. Going just by the shape and disconnected from any possible interpretation, it seems deliberate that the pattern exists of two distinct parts: "waves" in the centre and "bumps" on the sides. Let me clarify:

[attachment=3105]

In the beginning of this discussion, various participants argued that it's likely scent or smoke. I just think the structure of this thing is too specific in its various components, too deliberate.

Edit: granted, the part that connects to the flower looks like it could represent incense or something the like. But exactly this part is the most messy and chaotic. It then goes on to form a rather complex, more orderly structure.

The various components seem quite deliberate to me, also. Especially the two sides, which have a different texture, more like twisted rope or braids than the texture on the top.

Holding the lily, as in this image, depicts the purity of the woman in many thousands of medieval images. I guess it's not really different here.

The "triangular object" is the "divine radiation" of the lily object. It radiates purity.

The Virgin Mary or saints are often depicted with a lily in their hands. For example, Clare of Assisi is depicted here with her "aura". So in this case the "radiation" is based on the person and not on the object.The lily is just there to symbolize the property (purity).


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , Italy, N. (Lombardy), c. 1450 - c. 1460, Clare of Assisi holding a book and a lily

"Tents/Parasols" representing rank and authority (from Oresme's 14c Ethics of Aristotle):