The Voynich Ninja

JKP: The nymph on top here could have grasped her belly with minor adjustments. The person who drew the 66v figure was clearly emulating Voynich drawing style but was less skilled in posture and "perspective" than the main artist(s).. 

[attachment=1442]

(I see this as relevant to the thread since a marginal picture is very often added by a later owner or reader, which might impact the interpretation).

(24-06-2017, 08:42 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP: The nymph on top here could have grasped her belly with minor adjustments. The person who drew the 66v figure was clearly emulating Voynich drawing style but was less skilled in posture and "perspective" than the main artist(s).. 



(I see this as relevant to the thread since a marginal picture is very often added by a later owner or reader, which might impact the interpretation).

I'd like to offer a possible explanation for drawings that are almost the same style but not quite. I think it might be the same reason as the two hands being almost the same but not quite... blood relations... siblings or father-son, for example. Blood relations don't always have the same handwriting and drawing styles, but sometimes they do (twins, especially, but sometimes also other relatives).

Keeping projects in the family was very much a part of medieval society.

My reading of the f66r:
                p/γ 

    ren               mus(s)

               mel

ren - a kidney
mel - honey
mus (Latin) - a mouse, muss (German) - pulp (as it was mentioned), but also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (German) - otium, rest. 
Therefore I think, the text relates to the picture (the sick figure with a honey poultice at rest/ with a honey pulp plaster) and, possibly, relates to the f116v marginalia and images.

(25-06-2017, 12:35 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My reading of the f66r:
                p/γ 

    ren               mus(s)

               mel

ren - a kidney
mel - honey
mus (Latin) - a mouse, muss (German) - pulp (as it was mentioned), but also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (German) - otium, rest. 
Therefore I think, the text relates to the picture (the sick figure with a honey poultice at rest/ with a honey pulp plaster) and, possibly, relates to the f116v marginalia and images.

Honey was sometimes spelled "mel" rather than melle but it doesn't fit as well with "mus" as does "mel" for flour. Mus mel could be porridge, something that is frequently mentioned in medieval remedies.

Nonsense. It's clearly one of the oldest medical instructions, one given out by centuries of physicians.
     2
Aspirins.      Call
Morning

Sorry, couldn't resist 

(25-06-2017, 02:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(25-06-2017, 12:35 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My reading of the f66r:
                p/γ 

    ren               mus(s)

               mel

ren - a kidney
mel - honey
mus (Latin) - a mouse, muss (German) - pulp (as it was mentioned), but also You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (German) - otium, rest. 
Therefore I think, the text relates to the picture (the sick figure with a honey poultice at rest/ with a honey pulp plaster) and, possibly, relates to the f116v marginalia and images.

Honey was sometimes spelled "mel" rather than melle but it doesn't fit as well with "mus" as does "mel" for flour. Mus mel could be porridge, something that is frequently mentioned in medieval remedies.

Mel and ren - in Latin. 
I think it is not obligatory to be only one language, German or Latin, as much as on the f116v.

I need to explain, why I don't quite like "musmel" or "melmuß" interpretation. Yes, we see a pot with some yellow substance. It can be some kind of gruel or just honey. But, first of all, could the word "musmel" be applied to inedible porridge-like substance for external treatment (compress, poultice, etc.)? Although it's not too clear, but one can see a yellow spot on the belly or on the right body side of the figure, in the place, where his/her right hand is. 
[attachment=1444]
In the same time, the pose and sickly look of the figure may mean some abdominal pains or stitch in the right side, i. e., quite possibly, renal colic. Honey (with some surprising components) always was valued and used for many remedies, internal and external (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). The letter p (if not γ ) can mean solutio (solution) in medicine (Capelli).
And the main thing: the word mu(*) [attachment=1445] is still very questionable for any exact reading, actually, it can be: 
1) mus (?)
[attachment=1446]
2) mur (muris?)
[attachment=1447]
3) mur (?)
[attachment=1448]
4) mul (mull?)
[attachment=1449]
I'm not sure that it looks like mus or muß. What do you think?

Can we all (me included) please stay OT, which is "Are the illustrations in 66r and 116v related?".

There are separate threads for discussing the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Thanks.

(25-06-2017, 06:20 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can we all (me included) please stay OT, which is "Are the illustrations in 66r and 116v related?".

There are separate threads for discussing the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Thanks.

Sorry, David! 
My opinion is that they are related.
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. set: a human figure, an animal (goat), some unidentified object, the word "lab" of 3 letters.
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. set: a human figure, a pot with some contents, some unidentified objects, three words of 3 letters each: "*en", "mel", "mu*", one letter or a symbol (p/γ). 
So, as for me, the intentional use of three letters words is traced on both mentioned pages. Is there any additional sense? I can't answer.
Only one thing confuses me: we can see and suppose that the human figure (f66r) is sick and, most likely, with some abdominal pains or renal or hepatic colics, but the female figure on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. doesn't have any symptoms, moreover, she has a crown-like  head dress. We can assume that the author implied coagulated with rennet goat milk, but for what cure... for beauty... for general health-improvement... for pregnant women?!

P.S. I think, the top character of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia is a letter "p",since it is written in the same style, as the first letter on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the word "pox".

(25-06-2017, 11:22 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Only one thing confuses me: we can see and suppose that the human figure (f66r) is sick and, most likely, with some abdominal pains or renal or hepatic colics, but the female figure on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. doesn't have any symptoms, moreover, she has a crown-like  head dress. We can assume that the author implied coagulated with rennet goat milk, but for what cure... for beauty... for general health-improvement... for pregnant women?!

Thank you, Searcher! This is an excellent observation. A major difference between the figures in the two marginal illustrations is that the one in 66r points to an area of her body: a common way of illustrating an internal illness, while the "nymph" in 116v gives no sign of being unwell.

In addition to detail (L) in the first post, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. presents a number of people (both naked and dressed) near the plants whose medical properties are discussed. In a few cases, the figures don't seem to be ill. These are two examples:
Herba Capo Canino (Dog's Head) is mainly used to cure dropsy and various eye illnesses.
Herba Uriolla is used to cure the excess of one of the humors, in particular at the joints.

Anyway, the figure in VMS 116v is more ambiguous, because it has no clear relation with the other illustrated items, while the Joppi figures are clearly there to highlight the medical plants.