The Voynich Ninja

I'm never 100% certain about my ID's, and I like to hear other views as well. If you'd like to share what you think about this plant, feel free to make a thread about it - it's certainly a remarkable one.

The suggestion that Trientalis should be placed in the genus Lysimachia apparently goes back to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. paper from 1873.  I've found no indication that anyone placed it there in pre-Linnean times. As far as I checked, the plants classified in the genus Lysimachia in a strict sense do not look especially similar to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plant, and I doubt a medieval/Renaissance botanist would have seen them as closely related to Trientalis.

Well, the times in question are pre-Linnaeus, so the whole classification approach did not exist then yet. The question is whether trientalis could be called (or messed with) Lysimachia back then. Need to check what Pliny says...

(11-01-2017, 01:51 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, the times in question are pre-Linnaeus, so the whole classification approach did not exist then yet. The question is whether trientalis could be called (or messed with) Lysimachia back then. Need to check what Pliny says...

They did have classifications prior to Linnaeus. He even kept some of the old designations (and added and revamped many others).

Some of the pre-Linnaeus classifications were two names and some were longer than two names. Some attempted classification systems actually described the plants with short Latin words for the leaves and sometimes roots or flowers, so that the name was four or five words long.

He didn't come up with a new system, he organized and standardized and updated what was already evolving.

Here's what Pliny You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about Lysimachia (XXV, 35):

Quote:King Lysimachus first discovered the plant which from him has received the name of lysimachia, and the merits of which have been so highly extolled by Erasistratus. This plant has green leaves resembling those of the willow, and a purple blossom: it has all the appearance of a shrub, the branches are erect, and it has a pungent smell. It is found growing in watery soils. The properties of it are so extremely powerful, that if placed upon the yoke when beasts of burden are restive, it will be sure to overcome all stubbornness on their part.

Note the footnote 2, and note that the blossom in the VMS is painted blue (which might stand for purple).

(11-01-2017, 08:57 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's what Pliny You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about Lysimachia (XXV, 35):

Quote:King Lysimachus first discovered the plant which from him has received the name of lysimachia, and the merits of which have been so highly extolled by Erasistratus. This plant has green leaves resembling those of the willow, and a purple blossom: it has all the appearance of a shrub, the branches are erect, and it has a pungent smell. It is found growing in watery soils. The properties of it are so extremely powerful, that if placed upon the yoke when beasts of burden are restive, it will be sure to overcome all stubbornness on their part.

Note the footnote 2, and note that the blossom in the VMS is painted blue (which might stand for purple).

The buds and blossoms on Trientalis and Paris are white, the seeds range from white to light blue and sometimes a purple-blue.


You're right that plants we now identify as Lysimachia (e.g., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) don't resemble 5r, but since the name Lysimachos/Lysimachus is of ancient origin, who knows how many were called Lysimachia in the past.

Lysimachia (as we know it now) is almost always yellow. The rare white and purple varieties (e.g., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) have thick "tails" of flowers that in no way resemble 5r.

I'm not a friend of botany, but as I understand the matter, Trientalis is quite close in appearance to "modern" Lysimachia, so some botanists even today prefer to account it to Lysimachia species. So in the past there may have been confusion between the two. If the VMS author's intention was to depict Trientalis but he knew it under the name of Lysimachia or simply did not separate between the two, he might have consulted Pliny for Lysimachia and borrow from there the mnemonics of lion claws, and also the "purple" color which (as the commenters to Pliny suggest) is just a mistake by Pliny.


Actually, the best tiebreaker here would be to check whether we can find a "real" Lysimachia in the VMS. If we can, then this alleged Trientalis cannot go under the name of "Lysimachia", and we'll need to look for other meanings of its mnemonics.

(11-01-2017, 09:54 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm not a friend of botany, but as I understand the matter, Trientalis is quite close in appearance to "modern" Lysimachia, so some botanists even today prefer to account it to Lysimachia species. So in the past there may have been confusion between the two. If the VMS author's intention was to depict Trientalis but he knew it under the name of Lysimachia or simply did not separate between the two, he might have consulted Pliny for Lysimachia and borrow from there the mnemonics of lion claws, and also the "purple" color which (as the commenters to Pliny suggest) is just a mistake by Pliny.


Actually, the best tiebreaker here would be to check whether we can find a "real" Lysimachia in the VMS. If we can, then this alleged Trientalis cannot go under the name of "Lysimachia", and we'll need to look for other meanings of its mnemonics.

If you took Paris or Trientalis and changed the flowers to yellow and then stacked ten of them on top of each other on a long stalk, the plant would look like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (which is a North American species). It even has a berry-like fruit (although the calyx curls up rather than down).

I can't take time right now (lunch break over) to look up whether I have any VMS plants identified as Lysimachia. Gotta run.