The Voynich Ninja

Maybe it is just an influence of Tarasque image, without its meaning, but means just any dragon?

(08-01-2017, 06:44 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP - I can understand the leaf margins being important, but why veins?

Veins are one of the most important identifiers of a plant. Many plants can be identified by the veins even before they bloom.

It also shows plant relationships. Many parallel-veined plants are related to each other, just as many fan-veined plants are related (and are often aquatic).

Botanists use everything they can to ID plants (flower, seeds, whorls, veins, roots, stems, petioled or sessile, serrated or smooth, round or lanceolate, alternate or opposite), but the vein pattern (together with leaf shape and margins) is one of the first things you look at, especially in the winter and spring when most plants are not blooming.

(08-01-2017, 06:44 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP - I can understand the leaf margins being important, but why veins?

What I have learned from studying the small plants is that the botanical information is often concentrated in the leaves in general: their shape, margin, and I guess also the veins, though this will be much more important in the large plants so I'll take JKP's word on this. If I compare what I know to what JKP writes here and what I've learned from reading Diane's posts about the large plants, I'd say that there is a very large probability that the leaves in general are reliable botanically, while special "Voynichery" is going on in other parts.

(08-01-2017, 07:28 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe it is just an influence of Tarasque image, without its meaning, but means just any dragon?

Searcher, the Tarasque/Tarask is a very specific monster.

It is related to the legend of St. Martha (she tamed it). There are many different interpretations of it, but most of them will give it a humpback or turtle-back. The face varies greatly, sometimes a turtle face (flat), sometimes a dragon or muzzled face (long and narrow). The legs also vary, sometimes four, sometimes six. Sometimes it's spiny, sometimes hairy. They still celebrate it.

(08-01-2017, 08:40 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-01-2017, 06:44 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP - I can understand the leaf margins being important, but why veins?

What I have learned from studying the small plants is that the botanical information is often concentrated in the leaves in general: their shape, margin, and I guess also the veins, though this will be much more important in the large plants so I'll take JKP's word on this....

The small plants seem more like quick sketches, so perhaps the illustrator felt that context (among the other small-plant drawings) and a quick sketch were enough to identify them on the small-plant pages. Also, some of them match to the big plants, which means it wouldn't be necessary to draw in all the details the second time.

(08-01-2017, 08:44 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-01-2017, 07:28 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe it is just an influence of Tarasque image, without its meaning, but means just any dragon?

Searcher, the Tarasque/Tarask is a very specific monster.

It is related to the legend of St. Martha (she tamed it). There are many different interpretations of it, but most of them will give it a humpback or turtle-back. The face varies greatly, sometimes a turtle face (flat), sometimes a dragon or muzzled face (long and narrow). The legs also vary, sometimes four, sometimes six. Sometimes it's spiny, sometimes hairy. They still celebrate it.

I know, JKP. But this dragon and images in such look, as I understand, became famous exactly in France. I mean this. If I'm not mistaken.

Jkp- interesting. so that would indicate live specimens are being used as models and that the plants are to be used to identify real life specimens.

(08-01-2017, 09:26 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-01-2017, 08:44 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(08-01-2017, 07:28 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe it is just an influence of Tarasque image, without its meaning, but means just any dragon?

Searcher, the Tarasque/Tarask is a very specific monster.

It is related to the legend of St. Martha (she tamed it). There are many different interpretations of it, but most of them will give it a humpback or turtle-back. The face varies greatly, sometimes a turtle face (flat), sometimes a dragon or muzzled face (long and narrow). The legs also vary, sometimes four, sometimes six. Sometimes it's spiny, sometimes hairy. They still celebrate it.

I know, JKP. But this dragon and images in such look, as I understand, became famous exactly in France. I mean this. If I'm not mistaken.

Yes, that's correct. It was regional. Which means if the dragon-like critter in the VMS were a Tarask, it was probably drawn by someone who had been in France or who corresponded with people in France. It was not widely known otherwise.

(08-01-2017, 09:57 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Jkp- interesting. so that would indicate live specimens are being used as models and that the plants are to be used to identify real life specimens.

Yes, some of them. I'm absolutely certain of it. One only has to look at the root of the "water lily" to know the illustrator was observant and looked at a real plant. It includes the new-growth scales on the right, the leaf scars on the left, the spiral pattern in which the leaf scars grow, even the texture on the nub when the leaf falls off. It's very accurate and maybe the first ever botanical representation of a rhizome.

Many of the VMS roots are symbolic or mnemonic, but this one is naturalistic.

Eve and the Serpent, anonymous french translation of De Claris Mulieribus, Rouen, c.1440, BL Royal 16 G V , f. 5.

Here's a link:
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