The Voynich Ninja

I am doing a short piece of research on f28v, in comparison to this shape found elsewhere. 

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In the meantime I am interested what opinions there may be on what this represents.

Results soon.

Bunny

There was a discussion of that a couple of years ago in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.'s blog, unfortunately Brian preferred to delete those posts and associated comments for whatever reason.

It would be interesting to get other's views still.
Bunny

Also in consideration that nothing is without meaning including how the natural holes are used, here are images of the leaves through the large hole, on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the "puzzle" folio.  Images credit:  [font=Arial]Voynich Manuscript. Credit: Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript Library, Yale University.[/font]

f27v crops, leaves as seen through large hole on f28v, adjusted for clarity only.  Writing?  [font=Arial]Star?[/font]

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Better images available if wanted.

Bunny

I thought maybe there was a connection with dragon fruit, since the descending node Is also called the dragon's tail, and this fruit basically does grow that way. in reality thought it turns out this is a Central American cactus fruit but there are things about the drawing that could be thought to resemble parts of it nonetheless, one big spike to indicate that it's spiny, the overlapping petals of the fruit. and the root seems to me to correspond with the actual plant, being a triangular shaped cactus. the two little leaves resemble a small plant, which might be the stage it got to when they drew it? I'm not generally a proponent of America based theories but I thought I'd mention it just because it does seem to fit in some ways.

so I typed in "41 descending node", because that appears to be what it says to me, and got this:

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and what does it give, but an example of a series of eclipses that started in 1427. not saying that's the one we're talking about, just kind of a fun timeline coincidence to come across.

zoom out on the plant. does that look like an eclipse to you? hmmm.

The reason 41 came up is because there are evidently 41 active lunar Saros series. So then i thought i'd look at Saros 41, and it ended May 6 0030, which seems pretty close to another date of historical significance.


so I don't know what it all means but there you have it. astronomical? religious?

Mmm, dragon fruit

That's risky territory though. Columbus founded the first European settlement on Hispaniola more than half a century after the dating of the VM vellum. Additionally, the fruit only became known as dragon fruit in Asian languages, after it had been exported there. So without going into detail, this would require the VM vellum to have been inscribed centuries after it had been made...

(04-01-2017, 08:55 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mmm, dragon fruit

That's risky territory though. Columbus founded the first European settlement on Hispaniola more than half a century after the dating of the VM vellum. Additionally, the fruit only became known as dragon fruit in Asian languages, after it had been exported there. So without going into detail, this would require the VM vellum to have been inscribed centuries after it had been made...

I realized that a little late, but you never know, they might have been told the translation of its indigenous name, I can think of all sorts of things called "dragon something" that all have spikes. regardless I thought it was freaky when what looked like negative space to me at first then looked like a spike when I thought it was a cactus.

what do you think of the eclipse idea though?

It is certainly true that the flower does invoke the shape of an eclipse. As far as I understand it, eclipses would have had the highest importance in ceremonial and religious contexts. If the priestly elite can predict when the sun will disappear, they can exert great power over the people.

They would of course also be of interest to those studying the movements of the heavenly bodies for "scientific" reasons.

That said, "41 descending node" seems like a very technical term to be found in a flower - I mean, it's not the kind of thing you would expect a botanist or even a traveler or navigator to know. 

Do you know when people started numbering the saros like this? Would "41 descending node" have been understood already in the 15th century?

Are you talking about the leaves/plant or about the symbols 4jV inside?

There was a discussion somewhere that is represented numbers. Perhaps a reversed year 14xx
Currently i think the symbols represent the word "leave white".

(04-01-2017, 09:56 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is certainly true that the flower does invoke the shape of an eclipse. As far as I understand it, eclipses would have had the highest importance in ceremonial and religious contexts. If the priestly elite can predict when the sun will disappear, they can exert great power over the people.

They would of course also be of interest to those studying the movements of the heavenly bodies for "scientific" reasons.

That said, "41 descending node" seems like a very technical term to be found in a flower - I mean, it's not the kind of thing you would expect a botanist or even a traveler or navigator to know. 

Do you know when people started numbering the saros like this? Would "41 descending node" have been understood already in the 15th century?

I'm not sure

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The earliest discovered historical record of the Saros cycle is by the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (ancient You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) in the last several centuries BC You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and was later known to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.), but under different names. The Sumerian/Babylonian word "šár" was one of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and as a number appears to have had a value of 3600 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). The name "saros" (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: σάρος) was first given to the eclipse cycle by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in 1691, who took it from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a Byzantine lexicon of the 11th century. Although Halley's naming error was pointed out by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in 1756, the name continues to be used.