The Voynich Ninja

(13-03-2018, 11:44 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Don't you think it could just be an evolution from a Balneis example? The image you posted earlier (top left) also combines green water with blue parts on the windows:

I couldn't trace in the De Balneis tradition the detail of the round hole in the windows (but I have only made a very limited search). I am not sure the blue color is relevant (I am always doubtful about Voynich colors) but the "holes" spotted by Wladimir seem to have been drawn together with the rest of the illustration. I found something similar in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: arches closed by vertical "walls" with trilobate openings in them. Yet the design of the windows in 78v is quite specific. If it derives from the De Balneis, I would like to see the model. Anyway, I hope this kind of windows is not unique and that good parallels will be found.

The lower windows in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (XI Century?, Distomo, Greece) could be something like a larger version of the windows in 78v. The vertical "panels" are not alabaster: they look like solid stone.

I think we first need to take a step back and look at the complete image. Something is weird about it, making it look ill conceived or corrupted.

We assume the tank to be filled to the bottom with water, right? So how can there be holes in the windows? Also, the pressure from the water must be huge, while the perspective suggests thin slabs of material. The whole thing just doesnt make sense.

It looks like old wooden shutters, similarly to this prototype:

[attachment=2084]
This minature represents the Pozzuoli thermal baths described in De balneis Puteolanis by Petri de Ebulo (c.XI). The illustration is from the 14th century Carmen Elegiacum de Balneis Puteolanis (currently in the BNF).

Note the "windows" which actually appear to be water spouts carrying away the excess water from the baths.

"De Balneis Puteolanis" can be viewed online You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.and is full of interesting images of thermal baths. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread? It's been mentioned elsewhere. There are several similarities.

David, we've been talking about the Balneis in at least half of the posts here
I don't remember if the spouts have been pointed out before though. It would surely explain the circles.


Just as an aside I've been reading a bit about the origin of the Balneis images and, it is believed that the figures and the way they behave is based on ancient frescos that were still present in the baths by the 14th century. The page you linked is a great example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This part is the medieval artists' rendition of a Roman era fresco within the baths:

[attachment=2085]

The behavior so typical for the Balneis appears to have been present already in these frescos: the figures point to the part of the body which is supposed to be healed by this particular bath.

Sorry Koen, reading back I realised I totally misspoke in my previous thread. I was referring to the exemplar I linked to, not the whole manuscript tradition!  

Rather than staring just at the illuminated manuscripts (Kauffmann cited 10 unilluminated manuscripts and 10 illuminated ones extant in 1960, although there is another one in Edinburgh) it might be worthwhile to actually examine the poem? However, I cannot find any modern critical examination of De Balneis Puteolanis. Kauffmann's work doesn't seem to include any critical edition (See L.C. McKinney's review of his work in Speculum 35(2) | Apr., 1960).

Does anyone know of such a work, or a translation?

Good example David, similar "windows" such as on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.can be found on many pages in the BNF detailed for example here:


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

etc.....

The Balneis MS have been well studied. Other ms are described here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(01-05-2018, 09:26 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does anyone know of such a work, or a translation?

There is, strange to say, no proper modern edition. There is transcription of the Latin textwhich goes with the Bodmer Codex, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and there are English and Italian translations which go with the Facsimile editions, these I have not seen and there seems nothing to be online

(30-04-2018, 07:21 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just as an aside I've been reading a bit about the origin of the Balneis images and, it is believed that the figures and the way they behave is based on ancient frescos that were still present in the baths by the 14th century. The page you linked is a great example You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This part is the medieval artists' rendition of a Roman era fresco within the baths:

The behavior so typical for the Balneis appears to have been present already in these frescos: the figures point to the part of the body which is supposed to be healed by this particular bath.

Thank you Koen and David, yours are interesting observations. According to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the Roman figures might be "decorative stucco-reliefs".

A 1768 book (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) includes an illustration of the Trituli baths (Tab.XLIX, Img.157). According to the description, the basreliefs were in very poor conditions but still visible at the time.